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Old 06-22-2009, 06:30 PM   #11
BriarRose
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Re: Revolution in Iran
As I said before steam; I take no side here. I simply don’t know enough to even consider doing so.

Freedom? Hmmm…. I am reminded of those who still insist that this nation was founded by some ‘pilgrims’ who wanted freedom, like so many were taught in 1950s and 60s American grade school history books.

I just thank god right now that W, with his cowboy diplomacy, is NOT president. That man fell for bait like a hungry trout.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:37 PM   #12
RealTime
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Re: Revolution in Iran
steam --

"Again why are you so against the Iranian people standing up to a fair election?"

I'm not. I'm pointing out there is little or nothing that we can do. Again, consider the possible outcomes:

1. No new election. Ahmadinejad stays in office. Khateimi holds the real power.

2. A new election. Ahmadinejad gets elected honestly <or they steal it in a less blatant manner>. Khateimi holds the real power.

3. A new election. Mousavi gets elected. Khateimi holds the real power.

Do you see any other outcomes? The advantage with a new election is that tyranny exists as long as the people fear the government. Democracy can exist when the government fears the people. A new election would cause the government to have a little fear of the people.

These people are not revolutionaries. They are people whose vote was blatantly stolen. And that robbery was given religious sanction. Once you ask people to believe a blatant lie, you ask them to give up their self respect. That is what those people are marching for in Tehran. Not a new revolution. A demand that the 1979 revolution meet the promises that it made.


If it happens, it will happen because of those people in the street, not by any words from the American government. The only thing that we can do is make it worse. Khateimi can blame America and Britain for the unrest in the street. However, the Iranian people already know that he is a liar. It might not be a good thing to put truth to the lie.
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:46 PM   #13
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Re: Revolution in Iran
steam --

"A failed revolution is not an ending, it is a step"

Yes. Regardless of outcome, Khateimi is a big loser. He handled the election in a clumsy, blatant manner.

The other big losers are the American neocons. They have dreamed about an American-Iranian war. They wouldprefer to deal with Ahmadinejad. If the protests are successful, they will have to deal with a legitimately elected leader. They will have to deal with the fact that democracy did not come from the end of of a gun in Iraq and not from America in Iran.

There is a reason that they want Obama to 'get tough' with Iran. It matches their Manichean us/them view of the world.

Again, who do you want those CIA oiperatives to kill?
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Old 06-22-2009, 06:46 PM   #14
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Re: Revolution in Iran
Wasn't that what you were talking about?

I noticed that you never answered.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:12 PM   #15
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Re: Revolution in Iran
"Again why are you so against the Iranian people standing up to a fair election? "

For myself, I am very much in favor of Iranians standing up for a fair election in Iran.

Heck, I'm in favor of fair elections everywhere.

What I oppose is the United States government inserting itself into the domestic affairs of (yet another) Middle Eastern country. Or any other country, for that matter.

Most Iranians I have read on this very subject agree with the stance Pres Obama has taken thus far. It would be counter-productive for Obama to do any more than he has done. There are decades of bad blood, bad intentions, and bad policy between the US and Iran. Why pour gas on the flame?

The action taken by the House and Senate last week criticising the Iranians... can you imagine the response if the Iranian Parliament passed a referendum critical of how the US deals with elections, health care, or anything else? It was done for the drama; bless my personal fruitcake Ron Paul for being the sole voice of opposition. His reasoning? Our government has no place interfering in the matters of other governments.
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Old 06-22-2009, 07:22 PM   #16
lexicon
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Re: Revolution in Iran
"Obama "moved" by Iran protests & women speaking out" White House Press release.

Well, yeah, if I was a woman in the Middle East, I'd be outta there! Angry mobs, angry protesters, 6 US ships in the Persian Gulf.....nice transition!

Why can't America worry about America and let the rest of the world work itself out? We're concerned about people's rights and freedoms in Middle East, and we're obsessed about that source of oil.
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Old 06-22-2009, 09:02 PM   #17
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Re: Revolution in Iran
Is it time to resurrect that old parity song that came out back in the mid 70s. What was it, oh yes . . .

"Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran . . ."

As my one friend who was born and raised in Terran says, "What idiots. Salam on your faces."
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Old 06-23-2009, 07:13 AM   #18
steamy
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Re: Revolution in Iran
RT-I do not want anyone killed by CIA operatives, nor was I in Panama during the invasion. Middle was born the end of May 22 years ago (yikes) this is what was happening

http://www.onwar.com/aced/data/papa/panama1987.htm

I just want Obama to direct his human rights talk he gave in Cairo towards Iran. Say what you mean & mean what you say when talking about Freedom. Side with the people or not, but don't say you are then back off. I am not advocating invasion, war, stealth killing, violence of any sort. Why is that so hard to believe ?
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:14 AM   #19
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Re: Revolution in Iran
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriarRose View Post
...60% of university students right now in Iran are women.
...and that means? Did you read Reading Lolita in Tehran?
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Old 06-23-2009, 09:33 AM   #20
BriarRose
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Re: Revolution in Iran
It means that 60% of university students in Iran today are women. What did you think it meant?
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