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Old 05-28-2009, 11:24 AM   #171
RealTime
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
steam --

Do I think that we should prosecute? No. Was it criminal? Yes. I can understand how, in the immediate aftermath of 911, how excesses might have been justified and rationalized. However, I would have to wonder why we were still torturing in 2006, when the SCOTUS gave GWOT detainees Geneva protections.

Even more so, I could wonder how Dick Cheney can continue to claim that Abu Ghraib was the result of 'a few bad apples on the night shift' when exactly the same techniques were being used all over Iraq, Afghanistan, and Gitmo. Torture was policy. That he, and others, can continue to deny it strains credulity.
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Old 05-28-2009, 12:14 PM   #172
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
I have a problem with the Cheney defense of "we only waterboarded 3 people".

1. Sez you, Cheney, you who have never lied to us.
2. OK, but waterboarding is not the only practice the US used that is defined as torture.

I saw a headline this morning (but haven't read the article) about a subject who gave up info after being offered cookies during interrogation. I need to go back and look at the source etc, but really, in many cases we are talking about teenagers. I can honestly see a 17 year old boy saying to himself "keep protecting the people who got me into this mess, or give up some info and get to eat".
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Old 05-29-2009, 04:00 PM   #173
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
http://www.eandppub.com/2009/05/no-t...d-the-job.html


""“The most successful interrogation of an al-Qaeda operative by U.S. officials required no sleep deprivation, no slapping or ‘walling’ and no waterboarding. All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.”

Former interrogator/member of the FBI Ali Soufan, who testified to Congress last month, tells TIME: “He was a diabetic ... We had showed him respect, and we had done this nice thing for him .... So he started talking to us instead of giving us lectures.” Ghosh points out, “Defenders of the Bush program, most notably Cheney, say the use of waterboarding produced actionable intelligence that helped the U.S. disrupt terrorist plots. But the experiences of officials like Soufan suggest that the utility of torture is limited at best and counterproductive at worst.” "
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Old 05-29-2009, 06:36 PM   #174
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
Many of you likely already know about this but for those who do not let me outline one of the torture techniques I know was used in 'Nam.

Two, three or four VC are captured and taken up in a Huey. The first one is asked a question and he refuses to answer. After a few times of being asked and him refusing to answer he is thrown out of the helicopter. Then, the second one is asked the same question, etc..

It actually worked on some occasions and real intelligence was obtained. However, of all the times this was done how many other times did nothing result other than the VC being thrown to their deaths? I'm not sure anyone really knows the answer but from my experience I doubt it got the results desired but a few times.

I say we take Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld up in a Huey.
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Old 05-29-2009, 07:20 PM   #175
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheroCreek View Post
Many of you likely already know about this but for those who do not let me outline one of the torture techniques I know was used in 'Nam.

Two, three or four VC are captured and taken up in a Huey. The first one is asked a question and he refuses to answer. After a few times of being asked and him refusing to answer he is thrown out of the helicopter. Then, the second one is asked the same question, etc..

It actually worked on some occasions and real intelligence was obtained. However, of all the times this was done how many other times did nothing result other than the VC being thrown to their deaths? I'm not sure anyone really knows the answer but from my experience I doubt it got the results desired but a few times.

I say we take Cheney, Bush and Rumsfeld up in a Huey.
Don't forget Wolfowitz! And no matter what they said, it would be considered wrong and they would get pushed out of the Huey. Sounds good to me.
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Old 05-29-2009, 07:32 PM   #176
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
"Don't forget Wolfowitz! And no matter what they said, it would be considered wrong and they would get pushed out of the Huey. Sounds good to me."

Mea culpa. Forgive my oversight, Lizzie.
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Old 05-30-2009, 10:10 AM   #177
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
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Originally Posted by CheroCreek View Post
After a few times of being asked and him refusing to answer he is thrown out of the helicopter. Then, the second one is asked the same question...
My God, Chero; that is just unbelievably awful.
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Old 05-30-2009, 02:17 PM   #178
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
True, that it was but that is what happened more than just once or twice. Then again I also understand what drove those who participated to go to those extremes. The VC had sent more than one booby trapped child into an area where US troops were located.
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Old 05-31-2009, 08:13 AM   #179
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RealTime View Post
"....All it took to soften up Abu Jandal, who had been closer to Osama bin Laden than any other terrorist ever captured, was a handful of sugar-free cookies.
From the link below: "It took more questioning, and some interrogators' sleight of hand, before the Yemeni gave up a wealth of information about al-Qaeda including the identities of seven of the 9/11 bombers but the cookies were the turning point. 'After that, he could no longer think of us as evil Americans,' Soufan says. 'Now he was thinking of us as human beings.' "

Something to be said for being treated in a humane way.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...901491,00.html
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Old 06-14-2016, 09:35 PM   #180
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Re: Do we prosecute torture?
Gosh, this is awful.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-...nap-story.html
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