Children Are An Heritage

[magic-cat]

Michelle Duggar, bless her patient, fertile heart, is due with another baby any day now. So here are today's opinion questions:


1. Realllllllly big families: Pro or con?

2. If -- heaven forbid -- the Duggars divorce: What kinds of custody hell will this decimate the Arkansas courts with?

3. Homeschooling: Can one person, even a really organized person with cooperative children, do an adequate job at it?

4. Do any of those children truly want to play violin? Or do they harbor secret, worldly fantasies of saxophones, base guitars, and electric drum sets?



(I love opening up an industrial sized can of worms like this on DOL) :D

[OnSolidPath]

I'd pay to hear her-- spit out those names when she's mad.:p

[lexicon]

I think the USA should demand she get her tubes tied.

[OnSolidPath]

You're kidding-- right Lex?

[RealTime]

MC --

For 60 seconds, I had no idea who Michelle Duggar was. Then I did a web search. This would be her 17th child, eh? To answer your questions:

1. Big families? Con. My son, the only child, was once very upset not to have a brother or sister. Then he acquired an older sister for a short time. He no longer desires a brother or a sister.

I have two brothers and two sisters. I have no idea how my parents did it. FWIW, neither do they any longer.

2. The Duggars will not divorce. Covenant marriage and all that. It is far more likely that the will spontaneously combust.

3. Home schooling? Nope. No one can do an adequate job with 17 children. Taint possible.

4. The violin? Of course some of them hate the violin.

[OnSolidPath]

My Godparents have a bakers dozen. You'd never meet two, more loving, involved parents under the sun.

I don't think it was easy for them--Aunt Barb kept food charts on the kitchen wall just to keep track of whom, was allergic to what. They did a great job with their children--all 13 have gone to college and not a jail bird in the bunch.

[ghead1]

ditto RT, I had to google this.

Big family? Why not... as long as you can support them yourself.

Divorce? Why? I doubt they get much time together anyway. Well, obviously they get an hour every 9 months or so...

Homeschooling? If the teacher is qualified and sticking to an approved lesson plan... this schooling they are doing sounds more religious than most schools I've heard of.

Why not play the violin? The piano is busy.

What gets me, in the little bit I read, is the dependence on the older children to prepare meals, assist in the home-schooling and "teaching" the younger ones to clean house etc. I'm all for mentoring little brothers and sisters, and helping with chores etc... but it wasn't the kids' choice to have a litter rather than a family. I wonder how much a typical teen would enjoy this kind of duty.

I read the FAQ page on their website, and I wonder... what does "Daddy" do besides keep the kids out of school every now and then for a fun day, and disperse sperm? Seems very fundamentalist... the women are doing all the hard work :-)

[magic-cat]

I'd pay to hear her-- spit out those names when she's mad.:p


"Ja-jo-jo-JJJJJ-Jen-Jade-JobobobJJJJ....#*&@#^(@$^$( !!!" ;)

I'll be honest here and say I envy them. I ache with envy. And that's a strange confession to make on a public forum.

[magic-cat]

RealTime, I know they'll never divorce.

The violin question wasn't serious, but the homeschooling was. As organized as she is, and as cooperative and organized as those kids seem to be, I cannot imagine anyone being able to make that much homeschooling work for that many children. That is the one area of their parenting that I totally disagree with.

[magic-cat]

I read the FAQ page on their website, and I wonder... what does "Daddy" do besides keep the kids out of school every now and then for a fun day, and disperse sperm? Seems very fundamentalist... the women are doing all the hard work :-)

Daddy is in real estate, and they get a considerable income from some commercial buildings they lease out. They're also debt free, and they pay no property taxes on their personal home because they've been able to get themselves declared as being a "church". (Considering there are 18+ in their own family, and they have other large families in on Sundays for learning and worship, being a "church" isn't very far off the mark)

[steamy]

My God mother had 10 and is certifiable. I was named after her. I encouraged my oldest to play strings, it was torture. i told the other two turn on the radio. I also know my aunt at one point had dogs, cats and birds, and yes even a pony. She always made me feel normal. Also she had 9 girls, poor litttle Leo...

[magic-cat]

Coincidental update...

Jennifer Danielle Duggar arrived this morning at 10:01 a.m. central time.

:)

[magic-cat]

My God mother had 10 and is certifiable. I was named after her.

We will henceforth refer to you by your true name: Certifiable. ;)

[lexicon]

No, I'm not kidding. Antone deciding it's ok for them to have 16 kids,...geeesh, ever hear of adoption? Look we're all on the SAME planet. Let's say, oh 1000 families, who are finacially sufficient to have 16 kids because they can, do so, and their kids get the idea that because their parents had 16 kids, then they can, too.

No, gifted and talented, whatever, cloning because you genious genes is no excuse.

I think it's self indulgenty and selfish.

[CheroCreek]

Somehow I am reminded of the last live show Groucho Marx did on the "You Bet Your Life" TV show. A couple were the contestants and Groucho, as part of the usual interview and banter, asked if they had any children. the man sort of puffed out his chest and said "Why, yes, Groucho, we have 13 children."

"Thirteen children>!" remaked Groucho.

"I love my wife." was the contestant's response.

Grouch countered with; "I love my cigar too but I do occasionally take it out of my mouth."

The network went dead across the nation.

[onangelswings]

I'll be honest here and say I envy them. I ache with envy. And that's a strange confession to make on a public forum.

Magic, I don't think its strange, I envy them too. I would have loved to have had more children.

My grandmother had 13, dad had 7 and I was blessed with 4 biological and then 3 stepchildren. I know I shouldn't be a glutton but I love being from a big family and I love having one.

FWIW I have a neighbor who has 9 children, homeschools and runs a business out of her home. She always looks tired but content to me.

[single dad]

We had five kids, they range in age from 32 to 17. God bless them all. Over the years, in response to a number of people who dared to suggest that we should have had the obligatory 2.4 kids, I merely tell them that I was attempting to improve the gene pool...and it needs improvement.

Now, 17 kids? Grandma always said moderation in all things. 17? Wonder what the carbon footprint is.

If they can raise normal whole decent educated kids, and can do it on their own dime...good luck and godspeed to them. But, I shudder when I look around this county, this town, and wonder what it would be like if the majority of locals, ball caps indoors, haven't read a book since they graduated 8th Grade, decided to go out and emulate this feat. Lord help us all!

[moogg]

They're gonna run out of "J" names pretty soon! :rolleyes: . (EDIT:well, guess they found another one...one of the daughters is already named Jinny)

I watched them a few times on TLC. I kind of felt bad for older kids being assigned younger children to be in charge off, but the kids do seem well adjusted and happy.

[Tiddly]

As long as they can take care of the children and nurture them... good for them but all I can say is I love children so much and wanted 6 ... God knew better....... I have 3. Maybe God is blessing them with only 17....not 34.

I'm glad it's her blessing though.... I couldn't do it.

[lizzie]

Michelle Duggar, bless her patient, fertile heart, is due with another baby any day now. So here are today's opinion questions:


1. Realllllllly big families: Pro or con?

2. If -- heaven forbid -- the Duggars divorce: What kinds of custody hell will this decimate the Arkansas courts with?

3. Homeschooling: Can one person, even a really organized person with cooperative children, do an adequate job at it?

4. Do any of those children truly want to play violin? Or do they harbor secret, worldly fantasies of saxophones, base guitars, and electric drum sets?



(I love opening up an industrial sized can of worms like this on DOL) :D

It's exactly what nature is telling us to do. Have as many children as you can care for. Looks like the Duggars are doing that.

Back in the old days when people lived on farms, they'd often have 25 or more children.

[OnSolidPath]

Lexi--which of the 17 shouldn't be here? You want to decide?

My Dad bought a farm. 12 acres with an old, 2 bedroom house and a large barn. The family that had it before him, raised 16 kids there. The boys slept in the barn, the girls, dorm style in the upstairs of the house. The townfolk still talk about what a great family they were.

[OnSolidPath]

Growing up, I always said I want 5 healthy, hell raising boys.

I got 3 awesome girls and one mild mannered boy with a heart of gold. God will never give you more than you can handle.;)

[Booktender]

I want to despise the Duggars, I really do. The whole "Full Quiver" movement (yes, there really is a group with that name) makes me nauseated.

But they're self-sufficient, they appear to have a sense of humor, and they seem to be ok. Dang it! I just can't hate them. And I really want to. Real bad.

I've seen some very smart kids come out of homeschooling and they do have to pass standardized tests so who knows? The thing about the eldest taking care of the youngest so much isn't unheard of. In fact, I think it was the norm until sometime after 1945.

About the nastiest thing I can think of to say to them is "Fer cryin' out loud buy some sheep shears and get that hair cut, ladies!"

[Tuffy]

I knew a ton of large families growing up (9 to 13 kids). It was typical for the older kids to be assigned a younger sibling to look out for. I also noticed that the older kids often fled the home at age 18 without looking back.

At one of my high school reunions we were talking to a class mate who was 5 or 6th of out 10 and asking her if she was thinking of more then her present two, the response was "god no." But two of her sisters have 5 or 6 in their families.

I think homeschooling such a large group is hard. I know a mom of 10 who is doing it now and frankly, while the kids seem well versed in religion and home and child rearing skills, the reading and math levels were not very good, but I know she feels she is doing a better job the school. I think some kids can do well in those circumstances, others do not.

Will they divorce.. unlikely. I think it's more likely the mom will drop dead at some point. Would I like to live that way? no way. I love my two kids, if my thrid hadn't ended in a miscarriage I would have loved that one too but I think three would have been enough.

[amc123]

Jealous of the Duggars, no, even though I couldn't have one biological child, if they love them and can take care of them well to each his own and all of that.

Now this I'll never understand....
Years ago, right after I lost a baby, I saw a woman who was pregnant and she looked ill so I pulled over, then I realized, she was a drug addict, foaming at the mouth...I'll never ever forget the sight as long as I live. God I hope and pray that the baby (now about 14) was/is ok....

[CheroCreek]

Save for AMC I guess I'm the odd one out on this one. I also don't envy them a bit. I'm glad they are doing what they are and that they are happy with each other and all those children but I don't think I would want to change places with them for anything.

[dollygirl]

I couldn't get on the website and don't know who they are. So, without any knowledge I will now voice my opinion:

My uncle married the oldest of 21 kids. She's a nut job. I think she was mothering the others from day one. Her mother died at about age 49. Poor woman, it was probably the first time she got some rest.

That said, if people want to have a kajillion kids and can support them, I don't think any of us have a right to tell them to stop.

Homeschooling- yes, there are some that come out of it well educated. But in general, I don't think most parents are qualified to teach beyond certain levels. And there is a whole lot of educating that takes place in the halls, locker rooms, cafeterias, gymnasiums, etc. ,that homeschools cannot teach. It's called "reality" and I think homeschoolers are often so sheltered from it that it will impact their adult lives by making them naive and frustrated with the way the rest of us "public schoolers" behave.

I'm the oldest of five. I always thought it was fun to come from a big family although I see as the oldest, I was often limited to the amount of attention I received simply because mom had to spend time with the babies.

Sidenote- my parents had all five of us to Sunday mass every single week at 7 a.m., dressed and fed. How they did that, I'll never know. I can't make it by myself to 9:30 service.

[dollygirl]

Also - the whole "farm family" mystique is pretty much dead. Farms are so mechanized now that you don't need 12 young'uns to pick the crop.

[kara.]

Interesting thread and question mc.

Am I achingly jealous of them no. Do I think they're an aberration...in the statistically unusual sense of the word yes, but they seem to be doing as well in their different way as a lot of smaller families manage to do...who should give their kids back first, them or Britney Spears (and all of the many similiarly poor parents who are also less rich and famous than Brit)?

It's just a different lifestyle...obviously that mom didn't harbor the ambition to have an outside the home career, but she's certainly showing lots of zeal for her chosen "field".

Lexi, if having double digit numbers of children becomes a fad in the US, I'll join you in opposing it, but there doesn't seem much current danger of that.

I always thought three was my ideal number of children...as it turns out I have one biological and two step...the universe has its own unique spin on giving you what you ask for sometimes...in a different imaginary life I'd have one or two more kids, but my actual life is full with the ones I have.

[kara.]

Now I could make a comment to the other mothers on here that would really make the men cringe...I'll try to mask it a little...wonder how well Michelle's bodily functions are bearing up after bearing that many kids??? :eek:

[willowtree]

kegels!

OK, message too short.

I say again: kegels!

[kara.]

She better be kegel-ing 24/7!!

[lizzie]

I've seen some very smart kids come out of homeschooling and they do have to pass standardized tests so who knows?

I'm not a fan of home schooling. I say if the schools want my children for 6 hours a day, let them have them. Woohoo relief for me.

Seriously, though, results of homeschooling are probably mixed. Some with a religious bent don't want their children learning anything other than their religion from others. It doesn't seem wise to me to keep your children from hearing others' views. I know my former sister-in-law homeschooled her children, which apparently basically meant sitting them in front of the TV so she could sleep in. The two boys, at least, lived with my brother from age 14 on and never did take well to school. It's sad, really.

On the other hand, my hero, Francis Collins, was homeschooled by his mother along with his other brothers. His father was a professor at the first college I attended. His father and mother ran the local theater and had college students living with them during the summer to do theater. I always thought it was an interesting lifestyle. About middle school age, I think, they all entered the local schools. He's an absolutely brilliant man, and it didn't seem to hurt him.

[willowtree]

I couldn't get on their website and so all I know is what I've read in blogs.

That said, I am not jealous of the family in any way. I particularly am glad I am not one of their girl children.... from what I've read, the mother has the baby, then stops nursing early so she can get pregnant again. When the baby comes, the "old baby" and is handed off to the older girls to be raised. The girls are in charge of all the cooking and cleaning and baby-rearing, while the boys are taught construction and skills useful for earning a living outside the home. None of the kids have ANY exposure to a lifestyle outside their own.

I've also read that they are not having children simply because they love kids, but out of a political-religious fear of the apocalypse and the world being taken over by non-Christians.

Yes, they are debt-free. They also accept handouts and help from their neighbors, and the father earns lots of money on their fame as a family, kind of like a freak show if you ask me. Plus, Jim Bob gets a tax break on declaring his family a "church".

Again in blogs, I heard that her doctor had told her after child #10 to stop... and so I wonder what would happen if the mother passed away during one of these pregnancies. Probably the family would just keep on truckin - the girls already do all the housework, and Dad makes money putting them on TV.

All that said, IF they are all truly happy as they are, then who am I to judge?

[Phoebe]

This is a very humorous thread. Thanks for the laugh. I have seen this family on TV so I know what your talking about. My grandmother grew up in a family of 12 brothers and sisters. Not a perfect family but we do enjoy our family reunions.

With 17 children, will she be able to keep track of her grandchildren and possibly great grandchildren? With 17 children, will she be upset if one decides to marry outside of their faith? (PA: I can't believe she is marrying Bill who is a catholic!! MA: Oh honey, its just one child, we have 16 more!!!).

But whomever said: God will never give you more than you can handle. Amen to that, I agree. She was meant to have a big family. That is her life.

My mom asked me recently, if my last child had been born a girl instead of a boy, would we try for more kids. I said, heck no, we just dress her up like a boy!!!! But I am so glad we tried for one more, I wouldn't change thing about my son who turns ONE tmrw!!!!!!!

[Phoebe]

I have witnessed two different types of homeschooling. One is for religion/fundamental purpose. THe other was for character building. The family whose mom did it for character building let her kids go to high school. Those kids were the most well liked, the most popular and even one was a class valeditorian (geez, no wonder I flunked speeling). Anyhow, I think it really depends on the parents. Like Lizzie- no thank you to homeschooling. Besides, I feel that I do teach my children alot anyways. I just leave the academics like speeling to the school and teach my kids to be good people. I teach them to enjoy music, life, etc.

Last night, Bermie and I were watching Hell's Kitchen. The title "Battles of the Sex" had Bermie nervous. She looked at me and asked me (blushing a bit) what that meant? I asked her if that statement made her nervous?? She said.. yeah. What a hoot! I sat her next to me and explained the word sex had two meanings.. gender and the act of <coughs> nature. I gave her a big hug and told her that I used to think the same way when I was her age. I am so glad she asked me.

I think my role as a parent is huge already. The homeschool would just put me in the grave earlier!!!

[OnSolidPath]

They just announced number 18 is on the way....