The Great Snape Debate

[4Wardmarch]

My Middle says he's evil: he made the unbreakable vow when he didn't have to and he killed Dumbledore. He was responsible for Eveline Vance's death even AFTER he supposedly changed sides. His worst memory wasn't of betraying James and Lilly but of being teased in the schoolyard. Even though he supposedly had so much remorse about betraying James and Lilly and causing their death, it's not enough to have him treat their son nicely. So much for remorse. Besides he killed Dumbledore. Case closed.

My Youngest says he's good: It's always looked like Snape was bad, but it always turned out he was good when all the facts were known. Dumbledore was going to die anyway. There was probably a secret pact between Dumbledore and Snape that if it came down to it, Draco's life or Dumbledore's, Dumbledore would sacrifice himself.

My Oldest thinks Snape is out for himself. He's stringing them both along, knowing that both Voldemort and Dumbledore, supposedly the two more powerful were actually both weakening in their struggles and he is standing in the wings waiting for HIS turn. He'd just as like kill Voldemort as Dumbledore. And once one was gone he'd go for the other. He's arrogant enough to think that maybe he's better than both.

Me: I think they are all right, but am most intrigued by my Oldest son's theory. It avoids the triteness of misunderstood misfit hero who expiates his sins by sacrificing his life for innocence and good. And it also avoids the blatant evil stereotype.

Mostly though I wonder why Dumbledore had to drink the poison. Why couldn't he have dipped it up and poured it into a bucket he held? And I think Draco is in big trouble. I'm worried for him. And I think Hagrid's a goner.

And I really hope Snape's not in love with Lilly--too tiresome for words. But..what if he had a thing for Narcissa? But knew it was hopeless because he was poor and greasy and half-blooded? But now that her husband is in Azkhaban and on Voldemort's crap list...and now that maybe the position of most powerful might become vacant...and now that he's saved her son...maybe now he's got a chance at her (of course, we know she'll never give him a second thought--but Snape can hope, right?).

I also think the Ravenclaw horcrux is the wand that was in Olivander's shop window--what if it was Rowena Ravenclaw's. And what happened to Olivander and all his wands?

Why did Voldemort want Lilly to stand aside to spare her life? He didn't care about sparing anyone's life. Why was he willing to give her a chance to live?

Could Harry be an inadvertent horcrux? :eek: That would really suck for him.

Predictions? Theories? Questions?

[Theo!]

They are wonderfully fun books, but best not to dwell too much on the details. As much as I enjoyed the Goblet of Fire, the whole thing falls apart for me when I consider that a much easier method could have been used to get Harry to the graveyard than an elaborately staged tournament that he still may have lost. If they could turn the Goblet into a teleportation device, couldn't they have done the same thing with his glasses? Or his socks?

[RealTime]

4WM --

"Could Harry be an inadvertent horcrux? That would really suck for him."

You are correct in that being a horcrux really sucks. However, in my experience, no one becomes a horcrux inadvertently. There is always negotiation first.

[ghead1]

what the he** are you talking about?

[ejmuller]

The last Harry Potter book is coming out soon and if you haven't read them, you might as well ignore this thread completely.

[nammy]

I am looking forward to the next Harry Potter book very much. It's something my grandsons and I have shared together for a long time. It's been hard to wait between books.

I think Snape will probably redeem himself. But I like the theory your eldest has--it's a pretty sophisticated theory. But if it comes to good or bad, I think Snape's probably good. Why else would he put himself out for a kid? He took a big risk with making the vow for Draco.

I like the theory about Narcissa too. Makes more sense than Lilly.

Anyone thinks DUmbledore's alive? Does being a talking painting count as being alive?

I thnk Hagrid's a goner and probably Percy too. And maybe even Neville. Neville reminds me of one of my grandsons, so I hope he makes it.

[ghead1]

point taken ej!

reminds me of when the LOTR movies came out... there were those who knew, and the rest of the poeple :-)

roger and out

[jpc19687]

Snape is evil. It was in his best interest and Voldemort's to have his foot in both camps. Harry is a horcrux. It just makes sense.

Rowling borrows a lot of her themes from Star Wars and LOTR. Her spin is a lighter, more charming touch.

Gotta say, Dumbledore's supposed to be this wise powerful wizard, but he sure made a lot of rather naive mistakes that had disasterous outcomes. And he doesn't seem to have the esteem of his peers that someone supposedly so wise and powerful should have.

[Tuffy]

I think Snape is good, I think Dumbledore made Snape make an unbreakable vow to him regarding his actions. I think while Dumbledore is dead, his picture lives on, he can advise Harry while still dead.

I'm not so sure about the Horcrux idea, if he was one why didn't Voldemort use him in the cematery then other then just getting his blood.

I think Neville will play more of part in the last story, he was a possible person that was ID'd in the prophecy.

[nammy]

Not only his picture lives on, but his memories in the Pensieve. If Winky's memories were preserved, maybe his were too. Especially since he kind of knew he was going die. And there was a lot of foreshadowing.

Yes, you would think he'd get his soul back in the cemetery. It can't be comfortable having your soul in someone else--especially since they are your enemy and it gives them an advantage and protection against you.

[reeling]

I love Harry Potter. My daughter and I have had such a nice time reading his books together.

I think Dumbledore is still alive and staged his own death so he can work undercover and I think Snape is on the side of good. He believed absolutely that Snape was trustworthy, and I'm sure he was not a naive fool.

[2ndWind]

Hope you got your wand, 4Ward.

I kind of wish I had gotten into the Harry Potter books when they first came out. It's a little late in the game to pick it up now, I think.

[CheroCreek]

All I know about Harry Potter is what I've seen when I take the kids to see the movies. Seems to be something that is fun and interesting and benign, especially considering the other forms of so called children's entertainment that is out there.

Now, I knew a harry potter. I can still see him sitting by the trendle, his hands working the clay as the wheel turned and the table spun. Of course being so harry his long hair and beard would occasionally get wrapped around the pot being made. I think that is where the "horse hair" style of pottery came from up in the high desert of the Dine' rez.

[2ndWind]

I like the idea that Hermione is a strong role model for girls. And that they transferred her character to the films intact. When D20 was a kid and an early teen, about the only decent movie available for/about girls was "Harriet The Spy." The rest of what was showing were films like "Spice Girls" (although something could be said of their friendship as showing the power of female companionship; slightly corny, though), "Mean Girls," and Hilary Duff movies where she snags a prince-like boyfriend a la Cinderella. I actually dragged my nieces--then 11 and 12--a couple of years ago to see "The Polar Express" mainly because of the portrayal of a strong young female character (which wasn't present in the book).

[CheroCreek]

Some of the young male roles in films aren't much better.

[Booktender]

I haven't read the books, don't intend to and am not interested in the movies. I do work in an environment where Harry et. al. are widely discussed and sometimes revered. That being said, the very sickest part of me soooo wants Hermione to get knocked up. Let's take the sainthood away from Harry and the gang. BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Does that make me evil like that dumbledore person (if the person really is evil).

[Tuffy]

Read the last book, loved it. Will have to reread it once my daughters finish rereading it. (2 copies, 3 people reading in shifts but we got done by Sunday evening)

I really enjoyed it.

[Joline]

My daughter is a big fan of Snape. She's waiting for a spinoff filmm - are you ready for it?


Snapes on a plane


nyuk nyuk nyuk

[CheroCreek]

Pa dum dum!